Monday, May 11, 2015

A Body Is Made Up Of Parts

Continuing . . . you asserted: "However, predestination, foreordination, and election,  'the elect', the remnant, refers to the body of Christ as a whole, not individuals to salvation."

I'm afraid that the twisting of scripture that you referred to . . . is quite required to make such a statement.  Can you show me from what is Written . . . where this is stated?

The Bible demonstrates that God "elects", "predestines" both individuals and groups/nations.  It is not one or the other.  He predestines a single person to fulfill a certain role (according to His plan) and He also predestines whole people groups to conform to His purposes.  Romans 16:13, 2 John 2:1,13; Acts 4:27-28 are just a few examples showing individual election . . . and several instances throughout Romans 9:1-33 tell the same.  Especially this passage:

*“I will have mercy on whom (singular in Greek) I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom (singular in Greek) I have compassion.” 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I raised you (singular in Greek) up, to demonstrate My power in you (singular in Greek), and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” 18 So then He has mercy on whom (singular in Greek) He desires, and He hardens whom (singular in Greek) He desires. 19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who (singular in Greek) resists His will?” 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use, and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so in order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory-"

[I am noticing also as I read this . . . that verse 23 substantiates the proposition I made in my writing about how God's love (for His elect, His children--those NOT the children of the devil) is shown in the reality of Hell.  But I digress. . . .]

While it is the case that Romans 9 reveals that God does elect whole nations for His purposes, there are 25 instances of INDIVIDUAL election described in Rom. 9:1-33.

When Paul teaches that "the potter [has] a right over the clay" and refers to ONE VESSEL being used for "honorable use" and "ANOTHER for dishonorable" THE INDIVIDUAL SINGLE VESSEL (individual election) is being shown in stark and clear terms . . . as opposed to some amorphous, generic mass.  He did not say "group of vessels".  He said "ONE VESSEL".  Case closed.  Although there are myriad examples in the Bible to show God's use and direction and predestinating of individuals to fulfill His will.

The whole reason prophets could accurately prophecy future events . . . was because God is in sovereign control over His creation and creatures . . . and such events are foreordained!

You also wrote:  "The only passage that says chosen before the foundation of the world refers to those who would make up the body of Christ."

And I would just have to ask . . . how can you choose "those who would make up the body of Christ" without choosing them individually?  The Body has limits.  It has a boundary.  It has specific, numbered members.  "Many are called, few are chosen."  It would be logically impossible to choose a Body of believers . . . without selecting each individual member to comprise the Body as a whole.  The Body of Christ is made up of individuals, each one foreordained for that purpose.  Let us turn to the Word of God to clarify:

"Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it."  --1 Cor. 12:27

The elected Body of Christ is made up of individual parts, each of whom are chosen by God.

"But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth,"  --2 Th. 2:13

"You did not choose Me, but I chose you. I appointed you that you should go out and produce fruit and that your fruit should remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you."
--John 15:16

 "Before the creation of the world, he chose us through Christ to be holy and perfect in his presence."  --Eph. 1:4

Is anything more plain than that God CHOSE us?  That we did not choose Him?  Did He say, "I choose all such people generically as have blond hair" . . . or "I choose everybody over 5 feet tall" . . . or . . . "I choose anyone who has freckles" . . . ?  THAT would be a somewhat generic-type choosing of a corporate "body".

But instead we have specifics:  "As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”  --Rom 9:13

I think the big question in all this is why do some people want to insist that God does not choose individuals as He wills to do--and obviously does as seen in verse after verse?  Why the insistence?  Furthermore, how could some even consider it a heresy to suggest that God is sovereign over ALL things, including who does and does not inherit the Kingdom of God?  I'm afraid it is usually in the interests of asserting MAN'S sovereignty over and above God's!  Just like atheists and other haters of Biblical Christianity I have found that many "believers" also are offended that God holds ALL the cards.  They cry foul.  They don't like it.  They argue (against all the evidence) that it cannot be so.

And others just haven't studied it out very well or were brought up under a certain tradition which they failed to seriously question and investigate in search of the truth, be it as it may.

And Paul, anticipating just such a reaction replies, "Who do you think you are to talk back to God like that? Can an object that was made say to its maker, 'Why did you make me like this?  --Rom. 9:20

As for me and my house, if I err . . . I will err on the side of glorifying God over man any and every day.


Mark said...

Exodus33 is for the old test folks namely the Jewish faith.Yes it is In portant that the jews understand that God deals with "individuals" and not the Jewish can't church your way to Zion!

In study I recentry was shown these two pieces on the matter,both out of the new test.....These are for the christian,same can't church your way to heaven!
Revelation18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of (her), my people), that (ye) be not partakers of (her) sins, and that ye receive not of (her) plagues.


Jeremiah 51:45
45"Come forth from (her) midst, My people, (And (each) of you save yourselves(individual choice to leave church)) From the fierce anger of the LORD. 46"Now so that your heart does not grow faint, And you are not afraid at the report that will be heard in the land-- For the report will come one year, And after that another report in another year, And violence will be in the land With ruler against ruler--…

"ye" & "each" speak singularity.

Upon that rock it basically states "Glomes valley".A glome is a old germanic word For glom(glom on!) Or its modern day version of conglomeration!

So the individual that left the message(the runes) was essentially saying "the valley of the conglomeration (body) of the spirit filled individuals(parts).

This proporty marker is not in a out in the wilderness!

God's glory,God's mercy seat!

Hey!....(mans)"free will is a bitch"(the sacred feminine churches of the world system).

Linda R said...

Dear one,

This conversation began over your article Matt Slick vs. Shawn McCraney. My heart was saddened over your comment claiming that the God of the Bible is the “God of Calvinism.” You are a very intelligent, educated saint and a have a great love for the Lord. I have read in the past your experience with Mormonism and you are an avid reader and study the Word. I simply can’t go down the Calvinism road that has been debated endlessly … I will not do this my brother. I believe in free will.

Your last comment states ….. I have found that many believers also are offended that God holds ALL the cards … they cry foul. I don’t believe this statement would be from true believers.

[John Calvin says,] “The decree,” I admit, is, dreadful; and yet it is impossible to deny that God foreknow what the end of man was to be before he made him, and foreknew, because he had so ordained by his decree" (The Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Section 7).

Another quote from John Calvin, …… The eternal predestination of God, by which before the fall of Adam He decreed what should take place concerning the whole human race and every individual, was “fixed and determined.” (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God, p.121)

This is just fatalism, that’s all it is. Nothing could be changed, God has pre-decreed everything that would happen, every thought and every action, everything is pre-decreed by God, there’s no choice in the matter, man is only going to do what God decreed them to do, it’s all been fixed and determined, according to Calvinism.

The way God foreknows things [to the Calvinist] is because He decreed them to happen, they happen because He decreed it. There’s no man’s choice in the matter, there’s no angelic choice in the matter; God decrees and everything happens, whatever happens is God’s decree. If its God decree that causes these things to happen and He knows what He has decreed, then the god of Calvinism had to think up all the most VILE, EVIL, actions and blasphemous things in all eternity past to decree all these things to happen! This is not Christianity and the God of the Bible. Talk about cults, this is a religion that has a god that is worse than Satan. It makes Satan look like a victim. That is a religion that gives man an excuse in the day of judgment, because a man can stand boldly before God and say, “But I only did what actions you decreed I do.”


Brother Thomas ©2015

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